that will show what community really wants and those dont give a shit and you cannot interpreta those that dont care at favour of either yes or no, if it will be close call then we shouldnt limit it and poll should be at least a one month lenght so every1 can vote since we know that not every1 visits this page regulary.
Many ppl use pistolscripts and stuff or medpackmakros pistolmakros ... I think thats BULLSHIT so i decided to not use em but i still dont make a thread and want to force ppl to stop using that stuff. So there is a lot of things i dont like about the way ppl well tore ns apart for their advantage but hey if u need it ur prob!
Say i play someone rly good i suspect him cheating so i can think he needs to cheat so i am propaply the better player without cheats so i am fine with that and as Mr.T would say i pity the fool who needs stuff like that but I DONT CARE !
WE PLAY TO HAVE FUN MAINLY ! If u let ppl ruin ur fun that is rly UR PROB.
And one last time: NS IS DEAD anyway and trying to force ensl rules in gather was tried before with fpscap and stuff .. result was the gather never rly started and it was one big WHINEFEST and not the good kind of winefest! So NO REASON FOR ALL THIS !
If u make a poll u can have the followup poll being DO U WANT ENSL RULES APPLIED FOR GATHERS ASWELL? cause that is where the next bitching will start .. gather is not competitive so it is ridicoulus but it ruins the gatehrs for some ppl .. bla bla bla .. it will be the same as this thread all over again !
EisTee, so you wouldn't want to stop people from using a one shot pistol clip? I'm surprised.
I have more fun when I win because it feels like some sort of reward for my efforts, I can still have fun when I lose but if someone goes to great lengths to tilt the outcome of a game. I'd rather balance that.
And as for pistol scripts, I've been through that debate 100 times over. I mention a 1 shot pistol script because it used to exist. I guy from [LoG] called rebo invented it in 1.04 and it would often kill lerks at a range in 1 click. To me, that will never be fun as a lerk. Extreme example, sure, but I'm using it to make a point here: This is an internet game where we can make the playing field balanced on a software level.. so why not? It will only improve the game experience.
So you value the opinion from an division 4 player (random player, lump is not a division 4 player) as much as the opinion of a division 1 player? Thats just stupid, mostly they dont know all the ins and outs, and could be shouting to remove bunnyhop, because it seems overpowered.
Ofc the player can feel it, but can he make the right assumptions?
I'm not judging who is a GOOD fade, why don't you learn to read once in a while. I said nobody in that team FADES - as in it's not something anybody there is known for. Sure frG can fade and so can Kuitmo, but neither of them has ever been super epic at it.
And anyway I can judge who is good at fade just like you can judge who is good at lerk. We've both played this game for a long time and we can judge who is doing what is required to win games.
My actual point was that you cannot take 1 game to really mean anything. It's called the statistics of small numbers and it's irrelevant.
Also, I've been thinking about that post frG made with respect to different tactics especially the beaconing tactic. JPs wearing down the opposition with little to no danger of death is overpowered.
Now perhaps one fix for this would to buff OCs - maybe make them do more damage to JPs. Also I'm not sure it'd be a fix since RTs are unlikely to be defended by OCs - but it might encourage this practice especially in long games and perhaps even make permgorging more interesting.
I don't know if this is even possible though considering it seems like more than just a tweak. Are we completely unable to make a client patch?
Overall, I still feel the DPS advantage is enough of a problem to limit the FPS.
Why is people whining about turtling with jetpacks? There are TONS of ways to counter measure it. Even if all of them are on 200fps mode. We've proven that a lot of times. Not easy, but still doable.
I can take you all 200fps baddies with my 125fps cap and super smoothness thanks to my epic 120hz monitor.
Exactly. The problem isn't really the inequality, although that's also a concern, but that it makes NS boring. I've played on 200fps since Christmas and I actually hate it as both marine and alien.
Obviously I like being able to zoom around with the jetpack and blast fades, but I hate the way games play out now. Somewhat equal teams usually results in long drawn out jetpack vs. fade slugfests that end in a marine win 90% of the time.
I may not be in the majority about this, but those games aren't any fun for me, neither as a marine nor alien, although it's marginally more enjoyable as marine because you win most of the time.
The ideal solution would be to nerf jetpacks somewhat, make them slower and more expensive. Unfortunately I don't see that happening anytime soon, so the best solution in the mean time is to limit fps to 125.
i'd hate a jp nerf, jps were massively underused when the upgrade was cheaper and quicker but the cost was 15 res. I commed so many games where we'd have 6 nodes, almost full tech and just have jps picked off by fades for 20 mins for aliens to eventually push us back from having 1 node or something. So frustrating!
Just to clarify, I don't think there are any ultimatum's either side. I don't think anyone would accept 600 DPS for LMG if enough FPS would make such possible. So in the end, it just a preference question, do we want sacrifice a bit of FPS to have maybe more-balanced Jetpacks (and equality as a bonus I guess). Thus saying that theres inherently wrong about limiting FPS is just making a logical fallacy.
Besides, I think your equality discussion is overblown. Simply said, we need to keep rules. Sometimes they limit models, sometimes scripts (remember those underscore-scripts that made lots really abusive stuff possible), sometimes settings (texture reduction, gl_picmip), sometimes rates, sometimes FPS'es depending on what we perceive as unfair advantage. That simple. Problems happen when people cannot respect each other's reasonable argued opinion what is considered unfair advantage.
I don't see how limiting rates or gfx-settings (gl_picmip anyone?) is any more sillier than limiting your FPS. Because of bugged HL/NS-code both give you advantage that some people consider unfair. Thus again I say, this is a preference question which is useful place for a poll but polls have a problem. I could unload a whole bunch of stuff on this subject, in economics its called public choice theory but I won't go into that now.
We all know back in year 2003, the 1.04 JPHMG's were imba, and resulted in rather boring games (not all though). Now we have to ask ourselves are current Jetpacks something similar (HMG's don't kill hives with one 1 clip but you get the point).
This thread is full of bad arguments. I can't be arsed to list all of them but I'll use dugi for example.
Bad argument. 1.04 JPHMGs were counterable aswell. Not easy, but still doable.
In my opinion, aliens need to punished for letting marines have Jetpacks but now the punishment is too severe. Even against Jetpacks of equal skill, a single 1v1 between Fade and JPHMG usually favours Jetpack, and is 50/50 atleast. Now aliens cannot afford to lose many fades, but marines can afford to lose a lot of jetpacks. The thing is that in early game against equal team, its rather hard to kill a fade even if you get both nodes down.
I don't have an opinion really either way. The question is if games with 200FPS Jetpack/HMGs are fun and balanced? Discuss this instead of insulting each other.
Given Multi's evidence and mouselag issues I think smoothness is a valid argument against FPS limitations.
And I like 200FPS LMG, I think it balances game better for marines in early game.
Also, a good post by Fana.
As an additional note. When I get my lazy ass to do the statistics stuff I can pretty much tell you how much Jetpacks affect the balance (how many games with jetpacks were won before and after 200FPS knowledge). Place your bets.
That was before they nerfed fades. No Hive2 armor absorption boost and much slower blink acceleration makes a huge difference in Fade survivability against JPs.
A reasonable JP nerf would still leave JPs powerful, but not the uber tech. Right now there isn't any good reason to choose HAs over JPs, even though they should be different but equal.
If there's finally a fps CAP for everyone, I'd go for 125fps.
If we don't do shit finally, I don't give a fuck. A baddie will still be a baddie with 200fps, 300000fps or with hacks.
If you can't keep the res flow low enough to make the other team not to rush jetpacks, it's your own fault. It's the same way as if you let the aliens grow the 3rd hive, of course it's imba. But you gotta avoid that.
The problem is dugi that as long as marines have the smallest amount of map control they can run jetpacks, whereas aliens have to run the map to hold 3 hives.
btw i'm not sure if you guys know that 125 fps is abusive as well since it takes less adrenaline when using fade blink... so you should start a poll about that too
There will be a separate poll to choose what people would like it capped to if that's the way it goes. I know that some people will vote against 200fps because they can't get it and that some people will vote for 200fps just because they want an advantage. Ultimately, the poll is to help admins make a decision, not to make the decision for us.
ppl dont know the diffrences at those so called advantages between fpses, so this is pointless. best knowledge comes from experience not from believing in ones words...
and it's like you said ppl that cannot reach 200 fps will vote against it althought if they can reach 125 they will vote in favour of it and it does give advantage when fading. so there is a dillema here, we allow some advantages and some not?
Look, I wasn't going to do a poll for all these reasons but you guys asked me to. Now i've done it so we will have a look at the results and see what they suggest. Rest assured, i'm not oblivious to the motives behind votes so i'll take that into consideration. The alternative is that we talk endlessly about it or the admins make the decision themselves.
I still think that people that whine about 200fps simply can't get such high fps, that's why they are whining and tell us, omg i've played it since Christmas and it was tralalallala .
And even if we block 200fps you still think aA wont ruin the game with his lmg or fade ?
and if aA would say that he is using 111 fps you would like to ban it as well ? ( before you understood the power of 200 )
