Here is the best joke i've ever seen in my whole life : (from season 3 rules)

"The following maps are in this seasons mappool: ns2_nsl_summit (ModID: 735cebc), ns2_nsl_tram (ModID: 7741098), ns2_nsl_veil (ModID: 78ac3ed), ns2_nsl_descent (ModID: 7d527cc), ns2_nsl_jambi (ModID: 9d2eabc), ns2_tanith (ModID: a2e8799), ns2_turtle (pending: awaitng new version) (ModID: 486cef9), ns2_caged (ModID: 63c559c), ns2_docking, ns2_biodome"


Since Tanith, Docking and Caged aren't balanced at all, I really don't get why they are appearing in season 3 map pool. I won't talk about Biodome.

If you wan't me to quit NS2 for ever, just tell me. If I see any of these maps in the map pool, I will, NP ! Talking about serious competitiveness and whining at Hugh doing bad job for organizing LAN events, is something. Including such bad maps in the map pool is just suiciding. I have to admit that this map pool is surely ruining the last hopes some players have, and the last motivation they can get for this game.

Where are we going, really ? I still prefer Bonkers's idea of making a Combat Cup than what we are seeing right now.

I mean... FUCK. Last time, we had a Custom Map Cup to decide for including only ONE map in the next season map pool.

(This is not a troll post :o )

Looks like there is enough maps to make a custom map cup instead of putting all that shit into the ensl seasons.

Put the test maps into the ladder - any maps being added should be properly tested by all teams before being dropped in.

If we could use a ladder and allow teams to select the maps we could then just pick the 5-6 most popular for the following season.

ns2_nsl_descent is way to alien bias, but in the messed up version may be interesting
ns2_tanith, ns2_turtle, ns2_caged, ns2_docking and ns2_biodome are going to be new competitively for a lot of teams - do we really need to parachute 5 new maps into the rotation?

It's all a conspiracy ray!

Seriously though, I don't really care that they are a bit imbalanced.
Another season of sum/veil/tram and a few other probably would've quitted.

Also, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urcqQC02YbY

Hi5 for getting some new maps in!

Here is my take on this. I agree with most of what Ray said.


ns2_caged. Not really balanced yet and it is almost entirely gray. I know Flat is working really hard and the map will be awesome when it is released but I don't think it is a good candidate for an official season map. It needs competitive testing (Not just pub testing).

ns2_Tanith could work, but I feel we need to test it first before throwing it in the season.

ns2_turtle last time I remember it has very bad arc spot issues. We should test this also before throwing it in.

ns2_docking: I am OK with having it in. It is not as problematic as the others.

ns2_biodome: NO!! Terrible FPS issues that can't really be fixed by making an NSL version. Not to mention we already have summit / descent so we don't really need Summit 3.0

TLDR: Docking should be the only consideration.

For the record, Caged has been textured and lit according to colour scheme entirely. With a recent additional corridor (Bypass) on the east side of the map connecting Aux Gen to Shipping Tunnels, I've attempted to reduce the OP nature of a phasegate in Upper Shipping Access in order to balance that side of the map.

I'm very open to feedback on what makes the map imbalanced, any and all suggestions will be looked at. I want this map to be competitively playable - I have taken feedback from various competitive players to heart and made adjustments accordingly - but I need you guys to tell me what you feel is causing problems.

Thats what Custom Map Cups were used to be for, get some competitive feedback for ensl to see if maps could be added as well as giving the mappers a good chunk of feedback from all levels of Comp Play. Unfortunately due to very tight schedules we didnt have time to fit in a Custom Map Cup this time

So, we didn't have time to test the maps - let's just put them in!

Sorry what? Tight time schedules?

Season 2 finished in May - these maps could and should have been tested before just being dropped in - there are good maps made by decent people, but we have a ladder I believe that is being worked on for this sort of thing? Or a custom map cup etc?

Tanith is 100% win marines with fusion hive so easy to arc. NS2 fades aren't the same than NS1 fades and even in NS1 it was hard to stop a siege at cargo.

Caged RTs placements don't seems viable for aliens, but I need to play it in pcw to be more precise on it and how we could make it viable.

Turle is just a joke. Its definitivly a pub map. Not viable at all in competitive match.

Biodome seems ok. But need some performance fix.

I don't know about Docking, I don't like this map, so I'm not sure I could be objective on it :S Anyway I need to test it in pcw.


I don't try Descent with the new build yet but I think it should be ok.

I don't try either Jambi yet but I think it will be totaly unbalance for aliens.

Biodome should really not be in. Its layout is not unique enough to warrant giving it a chance. At the moment it is pretty much a badly performing Summit with no cross-spawns. Yes it is the prettiest map, but why do we care about that?
At least a map like Tanith is very different to what we have played before, even if I think it works pretty poorly in NS2.

First of all, no need to get riled up about the maps. I am not just throwing random maps into the season. I am working with all the mappers of the custom maps. We did not have time to have a custom map cup, so you will have to trust my judgement. I will not let any maps stay in the map pool if they are causing major issues. Note: that some people don't like a specific map is not an issue. Issues are gameplay related.

Even though I haven't played ns2_caged in a 6v6 yet, it feels good to play. And I don't think it has any major issues other than people not having practiced on it and therefore not being used to it.

Docking have been making strides to make the map play better as well. We will likely need to remove Locker Rooms as a spawn for both teams, as far as I know aliens can still spawn there and that spawn gives too big of an advantage to either team due to the easy access to the rest of the map.

Tanith is being worked on as well. Sattelite hive is getting a path to Acidic(where the vent is) so Cysts won't have to go through Chemical for aliens to get any harvesters. If it really is too easy to siege Fusion hive from Cargo, then we will likely also get changes for that. Tanith is in week 4, so that gives Jonacrab alot of time to make adjustments like these. All you need to do is give him feedback instead of raging about maps being "a joke" on forums.

Turtle, the current version will NOT see the light of day in season 3. But the new UPCOMING(not uploaded) version of turtle will very likely be included unless there are major problems with it. The map has gotten a total revamp and is very different from what is on the workshop now.

I played my first 6v6 on biodome yesterday. I must say the map plays really well except for the performance issues. I would like to see a NSL version of both biodome and docking to give extra fps. xtcmen says it won't have any effect, but it will have some effect. All the other maps have better fps on the nsl versions. Also there might be some other problems that are causing the performance issues on biodome, but that's up to UWE to address.

Both Descent and Jambi were in season 2 and they will continue to be in season 3.

My recommendation to every team out there is to go play these maps and report any issues to the mappers. You can comment on the workshop or in their respective threads on the UWE forums.

Since there is little to no testing, how will you know that there is major issues before it's too late?

And what's wrong with not putting the maps in and do a custom map cup when there is the time? There is no rush.

5 maps at once is like wtf? I could understand when descent was added, it was only one map for a season, but 5???

Im not against new maps, but it does seem like you are throwing random maps in the season.

I'm not really saying that these new maps jokes.

I'm just trying to remember the point of a competition, which is to give both teams equal chances to win a game. Including a map that is marine based like tanith (too short path to reactor room with 2 rts, easy siege on fusion from cargo, imba acidic phase gate, etc...) is giving more chances to each team to win the marine round.

Finding a match is already pain in the ass for us... Archaea are inactive. The only way, for snails, to playtest a map, is to play saunamen (so there's no skill gap). Do we really have to trade our practice time on a new update for map testing like a week before the season starts ?

To my mind, we should try to make a cup on a single week end like custom map cup. We have time for this. Postponing the season for a week or two could give some time to mappers to adapt these maps, with big feedbacks and streams to watch.

I know, some of you guys will say "why don't you organize it yourself ?" I don't have time for this, I'm already working on some stuff, spending nearly all my free time on NS2 already... Trying to make streamings look more "pro" at some point.

Anyway, I was actually raging when I saw this map pool, and didn't really see any discussion about it. That's why I opened this thread. The main goal wasn't to critisize for nothing. Stop taking stuff personnaly.

If you did want to do a custom map cup I don't mind helping out in any way possible. I would also prefer to delay the season a bit longer so we can test these maps a bit more as well as the Friendly Fire thing that most teams did not even realise was happening (it is still happening right?)

Either way I don't mind doing any kind of scheduling, admin, casting or reffing if we were to do a cup.

Let me know if you need my help.

Not sure if delaying the Season 5 days before it's set to start is a great idea. Also I agree with those who are concerned that these maps are not ready. I think they're not ready. Even if they are all ready TODAY, I would rather see them ready more than 5 days before the season begins so teams can get a chance to learn them.

The season will not be delayed and there is no time for a custom map cup.

I have put the maprotation together to give teams time to learn the new maps. It's obviously up to every single team how much of their precious time they want to use on learning new maps, but I'd recommend doing it.
Week 1: summit - jambi
Week 2: tram - caged
Week 3: descent - biodome
Week 4: veil - tanith
Week 5: docking - turtle
Week 6: summit - jambi
Week 7: tram - caged

Well if it were ever in doubt that the player opinions don't count for anything - that's confirmed it!

Week 2 a map the admin admits he hasn't tested in 6v6
Week 3 descent and biodome - LOL single worst week old NS2 ever

Tell a lie - week 5 may be the worst week of ns2 ever

Ok can we do it like in quake? post the map pool then drop drop pick pick?
2 weeks is not enough to train a map, if your expectations are not too big i can understand swalk but for us it's serious business.
We never relied on cheesing rounds, it's time to stop bullshitting around with the shitty rules before this game dies.

I guess Swalk doesn't care?, but I also disagree with adding a significant number of maps that have not been tested this late. If it was one map, that'd be one thing, but FIVE? Especially with 3 that haven't been tested at all? Ridiculous.

I'm all for having more maps to play. It makes it more fun. At the same time, throwing this many new maps at us this soon before the season seems a bit hasty. I'd much prefer if we picked one or two new maps into the cycle. That will give us the entire season to get the other maps balanced and ready for competitive.

Unfortunately, a few guys on my team do have lives and jobs and families that they have to tend to, so they can't always scrim every night. If a map like Turtle is being reworked, how long will we have to practice on it before we have to play it in a match? I'd like at LEAST two weeks, preferably 3-4.


Swalk, you should put the five potential new maps up for vote for the teams. Let each team pick two maps they'd like to play. The top two can then be put into the season (and preferably not in the first 2-3 weeks).

All I can say is... what's the rush? Why are you trying to force these untested maps into this season? Are we planning on not having a fourth season?

I don't see the point in adding 5 new maps to this season when the ones we've playing aren't that stale. I'd like to see one, maybe two, fully textured, playably optimized maps added to this season. Five maps are just too much.

"when the ones we've playing aren't that stale." -ha

Ever considered a career in comedy?

You guys and gals worry too much. As I've said before, this isn't any kind of "rush". If any of these maps prove to have major unfixable issues, they will be removed. Just like ns2_icarus was removed from season 2. I am not forcing anything, I am trying to get teams to play these maps so they can be more widely tested. I figured putting them up as maps that are about to be included in the season would bring incentive to do just that.

I don't like the idea to put a limit to the amount of new maps that can be added to a season. If the maps are plays okay, they will be added for diversity. I, for one, am bored with summit/tram/veil and I know others are as well. Adding these maps to the season will spice it up. There is enough time to get familiar with the maps before they are played in the season.

I know it's not a long time you have to practice on these maps, but it is enough time to learn them so you can have some good games on them in the officials.

I might consider taking biodome out due to the performance issues people are having on the map. That should send a message to UWE as well. No decision here yet though, I am hoping for UWE to solve the problem, the map plays well except for the performance issues.

@Bonkers I might not have played caged in a 6v6 setting yet, but I have played the map and checked it for issues. I did not stumble upon any. Flaterectomy did a great job and he will continue to do visual updates as the season goes on. He will refrain from doing layout changes unless we ask for it. That's more than we can expect from official maps. Once again, simply saying that you don't like the maps(even the one none of us have never played; the upcoming version of turtle) don't have any effect on this discussion at all. I see those kind of comments as nothing but spam. Bring relevant gameplay issues from the maps and I will either have it fixed by the mappers or worst case scenario; remove the map. Depending on the case.

@herakles It's been a week or two since I put the maps up for the season. That means that by week 2, you've had 4-5 weeks to learn caged. If you think I don't take the game seriously or have to rely on cheesy strats, then you don't know me at all. Play the maps in your pcws and report any issues if you really take the game as seriously as you say.

You're missing the point. This is the competitive NS2 season. We are not the map playtesters. Sure, they need more testing and exposure, but during the NS2 season where wins matter is NOT the place or time. Victors should be the better team that executes a match the best. Matches should not be swayed by unready maps. It skews the results of the season and pisses players off. Prove these maps are "fairly balanced" and "ready for competitive", we can do it. So far, i've played matches on Caged and Tanith and I firmly believe that they are not ready now.

I get your point swalk, it makes sense to give people an incentive to play new maps. But I think we need to look at last season to get a better perspective on what would happen realistically if you put in all 5.

Last season, it was hard enough to get people to scrimm on descent and jambi. No one wanted to do, people were lazy to learn new maps and preferred to play the old ones. Nevertheless, people had an incentive to play it and they did scrimm on them but at lower rates than other maps.

Now you want to add FIVE new maps to the rotation. Based on people's behavior last season, I don't think this will pan out as good as you think it will. Adding in TWO, three maps MAX would be a much better idea.

Why don't we all meet in the middle here?

Plus this way we could have the maps twice in the season pool, and they could receive more testing.

"You guys and gals worry too much. As I've said before, this isn't any kind of "rush". If any of these maps prove to have major unfixable issues, they will be removed. Just like ns2_icarus was removed from season 2. I am not forcing anything, I am trying to get teams to play these maps so they can be more widely tested. I figured putting them up as maps that are about to be included in the season would bring incentive to do just that." swalk.

Why testing maps in season ? Why annoncing maps less than 1 week before starting ?

Plz swalk reconcider this, this gonna make rage and quit too many people.

The reason I added the 5 maps was a preemptive measure to make sure we get some new maps for the season. I knew some of them wouldn't pass the test, but I wanted to give these 5 maps a shot. It was never my intentions to just add them all without listening to gameplay related feedback from the maps. Unfortunately most of this thread is simply complaints about the amount of maps or disapproving specific ones of them without refering to the issues people think the maps have.

It was never my intention for this to get so dramatic, but I guess that's what you get for trying to make changes. Realisticly there will probably be added 2-3 maps, just like everyone of you are asking for. Can we take this down a notch and focus on trying to make the best of it?
Biodome is now officially out of the season. But we need gameplay related feedback for Caged and Tanith. As I said previously, the mappers are cooperating with us to improve the maps and fix any issues/bugs. I will make a post here when the new Turtle version is out. Judging from the map screenshot evilbob showed me, the new version is much improved over the old version, they can not really be compared, which is why you should probably hold off from playing the current Turtle. From what I know, evilbob is doing finishing touches to the ready room.

Personally I say no to tanith as having played it twice in pcw it is massively marine bias. They have a well defendable double on their doorstep and middle hive can be sieged from cargo which is v marine friendly.

From what I have seen of caged I think this would be fine - small question mark over how easy marines may hold double but were pcw'ing that tomorrow and those that want to are welcome to join.

I personally would vote:
Yes to caged unless testing throws up unexpected problems
No to tanith - as per above
Biodome on hold until week 4 (giving them time to fiddle - I understand new patch tomorrow but don't believe this will sort this)
Docking I'm 50-50 on - not tried it really, but expect it wouldn't be as bad as others

just put them all in. let's test in the season.