NSL

NotDragon

Extra-Staff: NSL Mod (Creator) Coder
Posts: 64
Location: United States of America
Joined: 11 April 2012

So, given UWE's recent decisions to completely fuck over any mods, I will be removing mine from steam workshop. Since I cannot even get a reasonable answer on any questions asked of them multiple times on discord, and will not tolerate being scammed by them again. There is little chance of recourse on this at this point, I will not be doing anything related to NS2 unless there is a serious change of heart.

You are more then welcome to attempt to get answers for them on questions that have been asked, but I seriously doubt that will happen.

Top Questions:
Will there be a way to disable forced extensions if they are no longer relevant.
Why are countless bug fixes being completely ignored and gamebreaking bugs being left untouched (Relevancy changes).
The ridiculous expectation that mods will fix anything that players don't like (lighting changes, powernode priming).

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migalski

S11 Forfeit Champs

Posts: 31
Location: United States of America
Joined: 27 June 2014

rip ns2 comp

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Locklear

one brit too many

Posts: 111
Location: United States of America
Joined: 24 July 2012

Who likes Vanilla Ice Cream?

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Pickle

Posts: 1
Location: Chicago, United States of America
Joined: 15 December 2015

So who's moving to OW xD?

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tap

Neonblu Gaming

Posts: 14
Location: United States of America
Joined: 6 October 2013

Rip compmod, hello actually getting back to regular life of working.

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phone

Snoofed

Posts: 227
Location: Zimbabwe
Joined: 29 March 2010

dragon i still aprpprecaite you

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phone

Snoofed

Posts: 227
Location: Zimbabwe
Joined: 29 March 2010

delay s9 please

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Kash

For The Lolz

Posts: 314
Location: United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland
Joined: 5 May 2013

I understand that you have your reasons, and I fully respect your decision... but I cannot help feel like we (the competitive community) are being punished for the actions of UWE.

Don't get me wrong here, its your mod and you are free to do with it whatever you want, but from what I could tell it was intended to make the game more fun and more balanced for a niche community inside a niche game. A side of the game UWE has never truly intended to cater to. Your work was largely appreciated (with the exception of a select few people maybe) and without it this side of the game would likely be long dead.

To me it feels like you're condemning the competitive scene to death because UWE are being dicks. I hope this isn't the case and I hope that you released compmod again at some point in the future... but without it, I don't see comp being played much longer.

Regardless, I want to thank you for the time and effort you put in and apologize for the shit you had to put up with from the vocal minority that didn't appreciate your work.

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"Out with the gorge, into the ready room" F4 - iSay

rantology

The Boys

Contributors: Balance-Team
Posts: 124
Location: United States of America
Joined: 28 March 2012

This is a truly sad day.... Thank you for everything you've given this community over the years dragon, I'm sorry it came to this. Without your mods competitive NS2 (and vanilla!) would have gone down a very different path.

(I do not know the full details of the situation- I am not involved with the programming aspect of development, I just wanted to say thanks)

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Vindaloo

Posts: 204
Location: Czechia
Joined: 10 December 2012

We will have to postpone S9 and see what we can do. Talk to the parties involved, etc... We need to ensure the season is played in stable environment and not having it changed from week to week.

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Sardine

California Burrito

Posts: 68
Location: British Indian Ocean Territory
Joined: 1 May 2013

With no comp mod and no NSL mod there is no point in playing the game at all, cya later.

Thanks for all your hours spent coding.

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Obraxis

Posts: 14
Location: United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland
Joined: 1 April 2007

NotDragon says

So, given UWE's recent decisions to completely fuck over any mods, I will be removing mine from steam workshop. Since I cannot even get a reasonable answer on any questions asked of them multiple times on discord, and will not tolerate being scammed by them again. There is little chance of recourse on this at this point, I will not be doing anything related to NS2 unless there is a serious change of heart.

You are more then welcome to attempt to get answers for them on questions that have been asked, but I seriously doubt that will happen.

Just for sake of clarity, you didn't contact any of the NS2 programming team directly, nor the person who actually wrote the extensions systems; McGlaspie. Despite his great abilities, he isn't psychic and cant read every line of text in every Discord channel. Only Mendasp contacted him about some things. We only found some text of yours in the Server OPS channel, not the modding-ns2 Discord channel. (Things that are server related will drown out modding questions). I'm pretty sure all of this could have been avoided with a single PM to him, as he responds to all Discord PMs.

Let's have clear communication. The questions you've asked deserve answers and although I'm not a programmer, you can either PM any of us on Discord or if you'd like, email me at scott[at]naturalselection2.com and I'll start a discussion with the programmers.

I will however, attempt to answer your questions based on my current knowledge with a lack of programming ability thrown in.

NotDragon says

Will there be a way to disable forced extensions if they are no longer relevant.

For our extensions system to work, it needs to be on all NS2 servers. It's so we can iterate faster and fix things faster without having to push out Steam patches. I've talked with McGlaspie and we're probably going to do some code changes to help the situation next week. You should PM Ghoul to discuss it further. But from my understanding, it's possible to get around the issue already with just a small amount of work from yourself. (Not a programmer, but others have said this in passing).

NotDragon says

Why are countless bug fixes being completely ignored and gamebreaking bugs being left untouched (Relevancy changes).

Part of the mandate on the NS2 team was to figure out ways of increasing player numbers, as we all know, this time last year NS2 was close to death. Bug fixing is on low priority, as only 1 member of the team is full-time.

Bug fixing will still be done, but it's on the back burner. We don't have the manpower to fix too many bugs and do what we need to do to improve player retention. This is why we're still open to contributions from the outside which can be merged in.

NotDragon says

The ridiculous expectation that mods will fix anything that players don't like (lighting changes, powernode priming).

We don't expect that at all. Not sure where you got that. But we do need you to talk to us directly, especially the programmers McGlaspie and Ghoul. It's totally possible for us to help with this situation.

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Archie

Posts: 1
Location: Earth
Joined: 13 August 2011

Don't want you to leave but if you have to, so be it, competitive Australia will go with ENSL and alot of great players will eventually stop playing to, there's so much crap going on in relation to communication issues and whom is doing the communication, NS2 is fucked at this rate and it's spearheaded by a bunch of degenerates whom don't understand the fashion of the playerbase, there's so much disdain from preexisting hierarchical structures that came over from NS and NS2 itself, there's a disconnect between competitive scene(including modders, whom also have servers running for the majority of the communty) and then on the flipside you have people like Hugh and a bunch of people around him trying to make everything alright in all the wrong ways because they're trying to make it seem like they're doing something for the good of us all.

*WARNING NOT DIRECTLY RELATED TO DRAGON BUT SOMEWHAT RELATED*
Obraxis, i don't think many servers populated by community hosted servers even want some features that might be released or already are released, our Australian servers want it removed, chinese servers want it removed, Japanese servers want it removed, i am sure some other people want it removed.

Why don't you just let it be set up in the config and servers that want it can have it? it's an annoying feature "atmospheric lighting" most servers people play with ns2+ or compmod for a reason with lowlights and or they don't want the cluttered brightness of individual objects radiating and distracting.

Max's implementation and lighting is actually pretty specific and advanced, his brother and him aren't idiots and all that this lighting mod has done has given people to complain more on community servers about UWE, i don't think i've heard one thing positive said about it on the servers, or any server that that.

It's a forced feature, as such by default it should be disabled.

**** Hugh

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Tyr

BEAST INFECTION

Posts: 76
Location: Sweden
Joined: 8 January 2014

+1 on Kash.

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Wob

B L I N K

Posts: 296
Location: United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland
Joined: 18 January 2013

UWE stepping in only when things are in crisis mode. I kind of want dragon not to come back just to spite UWE now and their shit attitude in order to fuck ns2; it seems they only learn their lessons once the damage is irreparable.

Seems bizarre to me that despite all the concerns from modders when Hugh suggested the rapid iteration scheme, that you expect modders to raise the same concerns again in the future (with the expectation of being ignored). The fact that dragon has to use a nuclear option in order to get your attention is pathetic; feels like you want a competitive scene (loyal players) without treating them well.

Thank you dragon for compmod, your time, and patience. While I don't want to see compmod gone, I fully support your decision!

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Obraxis

Posts: 14
Location: United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland
Joined: 1 April 2007

Wob says

UWE stepping in only when things are in crisis mode.

Did you even read what I said?

We're on Discord every day, easy to PM and talk to us. Dragon didn't do that. We're not psychic.

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lebra

REFORMED

Posts: 141
Location: no., Iceland
Joined: 17 January 2013

We can never express how thankful we are for all you've done for the competitive scene Dragon, it definitely wouldn't have played out this smooth & enjoyable without your efforts. It's sad what things have come to regarding UWE's decision, even more sad that most people aren't even surprised by how they dealt with it.

We'll discuss the upcoming season among the staff given the situation along with trying to contact UWE whether they have any intentions of reverting/fixing their changes.

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Wob

B L I N K

Posts: 296
Location: United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland
Joined: 18 January 2013

Obraxis says

Wob says
UWE stepping in only when things are in crisis mode.

Did you even read what I said?

Did you not read what I said?
http://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/comment/2261350/#Comment_2261350

You only ever step in when it's too late. When you've ignored concerns and made the bad decisions. You have this "My door is open" policy but still ignore it. You can't just move the goal posts and say "Oh but UWE forums isn't discord" or "Oh I can't expect to catch everything" etc etc PARTICULARLY WHEN YOU CAUGHT THIS THREAD ON NSL FORUMS, A MORE OBSCURE SOURCE!

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Obraxis

Posts: 14
Location: United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland
Joined: 1 April 2007

Wob says

Obraxis says

Wob says
UWE stepping in only when things are in crisis mode.

Did you even read what I said?

Did you not read what I said?
http://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/comment/2261350/#Comment_2261350

You only ever step in when it's too late. When you've ignored concerns and made the bad decisions. You have this "My door is open" policy but still ignore it. You can't just move the goal posts and say "Oh but UWE forums isn't discord" or "Oh I can't expect to catch everything" etc etc PARTICULARLY WHEN YOU CAUGHT THIS THREAD ON NSL FORUMS, A MORE OBSCURE SOURCE!

I got sent the link by Rant. I don't monitor forums as much as the real-time Discord, as you can get direct, instant interaction there. As in, an open door. Just because we dont post a reply on some forum (even our own), doesn't mean we have not read & discussed a post and it's contents.

And yes, I've personally talked to Mendasp and others at length about things, decisions, and efforts. We're going to do things people don't like, and we're going to do things people do like. We'll adjust based on that feedback. The lighting change has only been on for a week now, and based on the feedback we get is how we will know it will say or not. We're also going to work on an in-game feedback system so we get actual feedback from players playing, and not just any subset. Hopefully this will be of benefit for all.

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Wob

B L I N K

Posts: 296
Location: United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland
Joined: 18 January 2013

A true politician's reply with no substance with regards to the immediate and current issues.

Do you support Mendasp?

Do you support Dragon?

Do you support comp mod?

Do you support NSL and the competitive community?

Stop talking about mechanisms of feedback and fucking listen to the fact that DRAGON IS GOING TO QUIT. How are you going to resolve this.

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Cr4zy

SpookerZ

Posts: 195
Location: United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland
Joined: 29 January 2014

Obraxis says

Wob says
UWE stepping in only when things are in crisis mode.

Did you even read what I said?

We're on Discord every day, easy to PM and talk to us. Dragon didn't do that. We're not psychic.

This was discussed before when I wrote a nice thread called 'Dear UWE, what are you doing'. All of a sudden open development, transparency and the forums came alive with developers saying everything is fine. Except when discord was discussed I came along and asked the questions about why important stuff was being ignored and you yourself ignored it as me trolling. I wasn't trolling they were legitimate concerns which you clearly failed to address and ignoring yet more questions.

It's outrageous of your team to claim discord is there for these issues and every time somene says it doesn't work you turn the blame back on them for not specifically highlighting people. Fun fact I've seen Dragon replying to devs in modding chat just for them to stop replying or give retarded answers that wouldn't help the smartest man on earth.
Stop throwing the blame on the people who are coming to your discord for help and being ignored it takes seconds to skim through and if you or the rest of the PDT can not afford that you have no right to tell people they did it incorrectly.

It's a shitty cop out and you look like an arsehole for pretending that's the reason why.

But I'm probably gonna be brushed off as a troll again.

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http://cr4zyb4st4rd.co.uk/

DCDarkling

Referees: Admin
Posts: 89
Location: Netherlands
Joined: 18 May 2013

Purely speaking on discord, as im to uninformed about that beehive you are all talking about...
Some days you poke a dev in discord and get oceans on answerers.
Other says they are silent.
They can go silent after oceans of answers. Asking later just pointed to them being busy.

Ive had question go unanswered, and I have had some answered in detail. I also has the short near useless answers.
Just keep poking at a later time. They are all people, and not in there nonstop.

As for dragon, I do hope the fellow comes back. We have our disagreances on many a thing but in the end he makes mods the comp scene needs. (as clearly most of the scene says so)

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Obraxis

Posts: 14
Location: United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland
Joined: 1 April 2007

Wob says

A true politician's reply with no substance with regards to the immediate and current issues.

Thanks for your critique.

Wob says

Do you support Mendasp?

Yes. I love the Spaniard.

Wob says

Do you support Dragon?

Yes, but saying he contacted us when he didnt doesnt help the situation.

Wob says

Do you support comp mod?

While I dont play it personally, I've never wanted to stop comp mod.

Wob says

Do you support NSL and the competitive community?

Of course, I'd rather work together and have good communication rather than insults flying though. If that means we make an ENSL Discord room or whatever, so be it.

Wob says

How are you going to resolve this.

Dragon actually PMing McGlaspie so they can work out whatever issues he's having on a coding level would be a start . From what I know, Ghoul will be making changes next week to help resolve some of the issues.

Cr4zy says

Stuff

Thanks, I try my best.

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Cr4zy

SpookerZ

Posts: 195
Location: United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland
Joined: 29 January 2014

Obraxis says

Cr4zy says
Stuff

Thanks, I try my best.

Nice troll.

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http://cr4zyb4st4rd.co.uk/

Wob

B L I N K

Posts: 296
Location: United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland
Joined: 18 January 2013

So you're not? You want dragon to resolve it?

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Obraxis

Posts: 14
Location: United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland
Joined: 1 April 2007

Wob says

So you're not? You want dragon to resolve it?

Yes I want to resolve it, but he is the one with the mods. He needs to WANT to resolve it.

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Wob

B L I N K

Posts: 296
Location: United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland
Joined: 18 January 2013

Resolve an issue UWE created? You want HIM to jump through YOUR hoops?

Do you actually care?

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Gooch

Small a & Sons

Posts: 9
Location: United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland
Joined: 3 November 2015

Could you guys stop flaming poor ol' obby

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Decoy

Posts: 73
Location: United States of America
Joined: 6 October 2012

Flaming PDT isn't going to help the situation at this point. I'm not going to get involved or take sides, but if you want answers you're gonna have to give them a few days to talk it over and figure out what they're going to do.

Dragon you've done a stupid crazy amount of work and had a huge impact. Gotta do what's best for you though

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Wob

B L I N K

Posts: 296
Location: United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland
Joined: 18 January 2013

TIL criticism = flame

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Greetings Friends

NotDragon

migalski

Locklear

Pickle

tap

phone

phone

Kash

rantology

Vindaloo

Sardine

Obraxis

Archie

Tyr

Wob

Obraxis

lebra

Wob

Obraxis

Wob

Cr4zy

DCDarkling

Obraxis

Cr4zy

Wob

Obraxis

Wob

Gooch

Decoy

Wob

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