20 October 2014 - 14:28 CEST
Situation very well handled, smart fair and moderate response.
Thank you ENSL admins and refs
Thank you ENSL admins and refs
Public Service Announcement/Request for action.
Sam
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20 October 2014 - 15:44 CEST
Mendasp said he would merc for PowerUp! for the rest of the season. Problem solved.
20 October 2014 - 16:32 CEST
Pascow is raging everytime so I don't think so.
This is not really needed and won't be published on public forums. Steam is your friend Neoken. And you know me. :)
Awesome. Mendasp knows how to do that anyway.
“It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.”
20 October 2014 - 18:42 CEST
Is the community really so small that cheating during multiple league matches is forgivable? I for one think this punishment is akin to a slap on the wrist. If he'd been caught by VAC he would get a permaban. And what of the public servers he plays on, and likely cheats on?
What if another person does this? Do they get forgiveness as well, as well as a rule that they must stream their matches or record them? Who's going to watch all of those recordings/streams? It seems a bit silly and, frankly, far too lenient. It DOES create a precedent for how other situations like this are handled, and I am worried that the message you're sending isn't a sensible one.
Ban his ass, he got caught cheating in a league that we all spend months practicing and waiting for. It isn't fair that he should be so easily forgiven and allowed to fuck over the fun for not only the NSL games, but public servers as well.
What if another person does this? Do they get forgiveness as well, as well as a rule that they must stream their matches or record them? Who's going to watch all of those recordings/streams? It seems a bit silly and, frankly, far too lenient. It DOES create a precedent for how other situations like this are handled, and I am worried that the message you're sending isn't a sensible one.
Ban his ass, he got caught cheating in a league that we all spend months practicing and waiting for. It isn't fair that he should be so easily forgiven and allowed to fuck over the fun for not only the NSL games, but public servers as well.
20 October 2014 - 19:17 CEST
I'm guessing that precedent has already been created by EIssfeldt.
20 October 2014 - 19:19 CEST
Not familiar with that situation, give me the tl:dr?
20 October 2014 - 19:27 CEST
I agree with Jason. Much like everyone else has said the handling of the accusation was top notch. However, if the guy is guilty of aim botting, you shouldn't have to think twice about permanent banning him. In terms of setting a precedent, this seems like the clear cut way to send the message to everyone that cheating is a zero tolerance policy (as it should be). I personally think giving his team the benefit of doubt to replay their matches is a being too lenient even. I just find it hard to believe they never suspected anything of their teammate through all the games they've played together, but that is a can of worms for another day.
20 October 2014 - 19:30 CEST
Got to disagree, giving his team the benefit of the doubt is the correct move I think. There's nothing to implicate them, that's just being over zealous, scorched earth administration. Can't presume their guilt just because they know a cheater.
20 October 2014 - 19:32 CEST
Pretty sure there's a difference between someone who got caught using an aimbot, and someone who got VAC banned for being a moron. But yes, i would agree with Jason. Doubt the community is going to die because of one person to merit this 'acceptance'.
20 October 2014 - 19:41 CEST
It just seems like a lack of integrity from that team. It's not a huge concern though, since there's no way to prove whether or not they knew he was cheating. I see how the size of the community could justify not punishing the team I suppose. Just a bit of frustration. I don't see any good coming out of a one season ban for EvilBot though.
Sam
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20 October 2014 - 20:03 CEST
He can't play for the season. That is good enough. It's not hard to ban him again if he does the same thing and with far dire consequences. It's pretty easy to tell when someone is aimbotting, even when they are subtle about it. In Evil's case he was far from subtle.
20 October 2014 - 21:01 CEST
I say we will all biffle him, just to be sure.
RioS is a master bifflard.
RioS is a master bifflard.
20 October 2014 - 21:48 CEST
hmntrrt
Cr4zy
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20 October 2014 - 23:19 CEST
because everyone is a tryhard in ns2
21 October 2014 - 02:30 CEST
True, which is a shame, don't you think? Would be nice for you to have somebody to relate to.
21 October 2014 - 09:52 CEST
He was VAC banned because of a wallback. He said he tried to provide evidence of somebody else cheating. Since pretty much everybody spoke out for him, he was allowed to play in the tournament, as long as he streamed every match.
Both were caught using cheats; both were given the chance to prove themselves. This is the way cheaters in doubt are handled.
Benjibb
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21 October 2014 - 09:52 CEST
Personally I think it was the correct response, lets face it we dont have VAC behind us, we cant stop him from playing on pubs and hacking so what good would come from a permaban here? We all know hes now an official cheater, and if he wants to continue playing in div 9 where he belongs then why stop him if he agrees to stream his games? Even with a permaban here there's nothing preventing him acquiring a new steam id and alias and joining a new team and trying the same shit again but what we have is a community of diligent players (Pascow excluded) and very experienced refs that can spot that shit a mile away. Yes it might set a precedent for future cheating cases but what good is a perma ban when a new identity can simply be bought? A requirement for him having to stream matches essentially prevents him from hacking in any other nsl match and with him being preventing from playing this season and powerups games being replayed, for me the admins got it spot on.
Cr4zy
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21 October 2014 - 16:03 CEST
Like all of onfire?
21 October 2014 - 16:03 CEST
Ehh yeah after thinking more about it and hearing some different views on it, I'm alright with the punishment now. If he cares enough to continue playing he,ll have to stream all his games next season so he wouldn't be able to get away with it anyways. I guess my concern was more about future incidents that could occur from other players using cheats in certain situations like EvilBot was doing. Hopefully that won't happen but if it does we'll just have to have faith in the refs to handle it.
21 October 2014 - 19:17 CEST
Hold your horses.. leave me out of this please xD
CRaZyCAT
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21 October 2014 - 22:29 CEST
I saw the video recordings that Zefram was talking about. I confirm that some moments there looks like cheating. I told my confirmation to Zefram. But I have to say that there was not hundred-percent proof. By the way only one man in our team after browsing that video said there are something like cheating there. Moreover, the day befor EvilBot promised me to record his camera while playing. It was extremely strange in way when he is cheating.
I had 3 versions:
1) This first spec video shows only its lags and not real EvilBot's view snapping (15-25%)
2) EvilBot really have able to perform such aim and camera movement (about 5%)
3) EvilBot is cheating (70-80%)
If EvilBot is cheating I have to get his confession or get the hundred-percent proof.
I did not tell him what he was officially accused of cheating. Also he didn't know about this thread. So next day he recorded our pcw with HBZ using Bandicam (30 fps). Here this videos (only marines yet):
https://mega.co.nz/#!p1VzlS7a!QhBxU5H8XhiqDKvFA6RC2qKJ06AHILiPFpLjlNLEihQ
https://mega.co.nz/#!t48n3ILK!MSgDjPhl29ntze5HgCpE9nsl9oGQ7Zx74WWkeG38GFQ
(audio time shift is 1800 ms)
This videos reject version about NSL 1st spec lags so only one incredible version about his innocence remain.
I spoke with EvilBot and explained everything without concealment. He confidently swore he is not cheating. I accepted this and now we are going to do a final step. 2nd version still alive. We will record his mouse motion in reality at the same time recording his play with Bandicam. Then I'll be able to synchronize his mouse movements with his camera motion. This will give us one of the following hundred-percent proofs:
1) his mouse motion doesn't similar with his camera motion ergo he is cheating
2) his mouse motion similar with his camera motion ergo he is not cheating
If the second proof will be presented and EvilBot will not be unbaned PowerUP! will boycott NSL events.
Otherwise, EvilBot will leave PowerUP!
I had 3 versions:
1) This first spec video shows only its lags and not real EvilBot's view snapping (15-25%)
2) EvilBot really have able to perform such aim and camera movement (about 5%)
3) EvilBot is cheating (70-80%)
If EvilBot is cheating I have to get his confession or get the hundred-percent proof.
I did not tell him what he was officially accused of cheating. Also he didn't know about this thread. So next day he recorded our pcw with HBZ using Bandicam (30 fps). Here this videos (only marines yet):
https://mega.co.nz/#!p1VzlS7a!QhBxU5H8XhiqDKvFA6RC2qKJ06AHILiPFpLjlNLEihQ
https://mega.co.nz/#!t48n3ILK!MSgDjPhl29ntze5HgCpE9nsl9oGQ7Zx74WWkeG38GFQ
(audio time shift is 1800 ms)
This videos reject version about NSL 1st spec lags so only one incredible version about his innocence remain.
I spoke with EvilBot and explained everything without concealment. He confidently swore he is not cheating. I accepted this and now we are going to do a final step. 2nd version still alive. We will record his mouse motion in reality at the same time recording his play with Bandicam. Then I'll be able to synchronize his mouse movements with his camera motion. This will give us one of the following hundred-percent proofs:
1) his mouse motion doesn't similar with his camera motion ergo he is cheating
2) his mouse motion similar with his camera motion ergo he is not cheating
If the second proof will be presented and EvilBot will not be unbaned PowerUP! will boycott NSL events.
Otherwise, EvilBot will leave PowerUP!
Battle.net: CRaZyCAT #222106
21 October 2014 - 23:29 CEST
#occupy the ensl
21 October 2014 - 23:47 CEST
I'm not gonna talk here as an NSL admin or whatever but definitely as a player or a merc that played against your team many and many times.
EvilBot is now aware of everything that happened here and know about both videos. Did he watch them? You can try to test him as often as you want to but I don't know any player that would attempt to cheat while all his moves are recorded, everything he's doing is streaming and/or recording. In this game, we cannot make a perfect proof that someone is cheating, that is true and we all agree about that statement. Nevertheless, Referees and other spectators that spectated his matches, players that watched the replays (how many weren't in the know about EvilBot and started to suspect your player of cheating after the said replays?), 1st person view and Premium players (those should be able to recognize a potential Premium aim) that analyzed these videos and recordings, they all got the same conclusion, he's using a kind of toggling during his fights, in general the most important ones.
I can admit this is not easy thing to determine whether someone is cheating when you do not play against this guy, and at the contrary, play in the same side. But you cannot deny that everything here does not prove / is not enough to give a ban to this player.
The NSL Staff has acted nicely and kindly and didn't reverse the scores to create forfeits toward your team. Therefore, you're allowed to replay your matches AND you whole team isn't kicked out of the season. Your player is also banned until the season ends only. This allows him to change, and to not cheat anymore for the next events. And here's your reaction? You gonna boycott NSL events if your (probably) useless proof does not convince the staff to change its mind knowing that your guy was perfectly able to disable his cheats 'cause he knows about that?
Let's be honest here CraZyCAT, you cannot boycott any events if you're alone. I mean, if there's only your team that gets as purpose to boycott Season 5. You have been very careful on the previous posts of this thread, there are other teams that requested to boycott the season if your guy wasn't banned. Their choice, and I wasn't in favor of this. But, do you really think your team has a stronger impact than the other teams united? If you decide to do it though, I'm not sure the other teams (those that fought against yours) will get disappointed and will defend your point. A team with a cheater that leaves an event does not represent as much as 5 teams with no cheater.
Sorry for the rude words and all that but I needed to explain my thoughts.Your message doesn't make any sense for me because your reaction and response are disproportionate.
EvilBot is now aware of everything that happened here and know about both videos. Did he watch them? You can try to test him as often as you want to but I don't know any player that would attempt to cheat while all his moves are recorded, everything he's doing is streaming and/or recording. In this game, we cannot make a perfect proof that someone is cheating, that is true and we all agree about that statement. Nevertheless, Referees and other spectators that spectated his matches, players that watched the replays (how many weren't in the know about EvilBot and started to suspect your player of cheating after the said replays?), 1st person view and Premium players (those should be able to recognize a potential Premium aim) that analyzed these videos and recordings, they all got the same conclusion, he's using a kind of toggling during his fights, in general the most important ones.
I can admit this is not easy thing to determine whether someone is cheating when you do not play against this guy, and at the contrary, play in the same side. But you cannot deny that everything here does not prove / is not enough to give a ban to this player.
The NSL Staff has acted nicely and kindly and didn't reverse the scores to create forfeits toward your team. Therefore, you're allowed to replay your matches AND you whole team isn't kicked out of the season. Your player is also banned until the season ends only. This allows him to change, and to not cheat anymore for the next events. And here's your reaction? You gonna boycott NSL events if your (probably) useless proof does not convince the staff to change its mind knowing that your guy was perfectly able to disable his cheats 'cause he knows about that?
Let's be honest here CraZyCAT, you cannot boycott any events if you're alone. I mean, if there's only your team that gets as purpose to boycott Season 5. You have been very careful on the previous posts of this thread, there are other teams that requested to boycott the season if your guy wasn't banned. Their choice, and I wasn't in favor of this. But, do you really think your team has a stronger impact than the other teams united? If you decide to do it though, I'm not sure the other teams (those that fought against yours) will get disappointed and will defend your point. A team with a cheater that leaves an event does not represent as much as 5 teams with no cheater.
Sorry for the rude words and all that but I needed to explain my thoughts.Your message doesn't make any sense for me because your reaction and response are disproportionate.
“It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.”
22 October 2014 - 00:06 CEST
i still cant believe that the russians cant accept that he was cheating....in the video every stupid child could recognize that he used the cheapest aimbot ever made...i mean if you not play internet games since a few days ....and maybe saw some aimbots before.... I MEAN THIS IS SO RETARDED ...THERE IS NO FUCKING DOUBT THAT THIS IS A AIMBOT....I MEAN NOT EVEN A LITTLE ONE
WTF
btw do you know this one?
"hey cheater retard are you cheating?"
"no..."
WTF
btw do you know this one?
"hey cheater retard are you cheating?"
"no..."
CRaZyCAT
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22 October 2014 - 00:17 CEST
I only want to reach the triumph of truth. I completely agree with the sanctions of the NSL referee stuff against EvilBot. If I was a referee like you the most likely I would come the same deduction because less than 5% probability of innocence not enough to let him stay to play league. And it would not be enough him to stay in PowerUP! if he was not our common friend. But he is. And I do this because he is our friend so I want get the hundred-percent proof and I believe this is possible to get. And such proof should not be "useless".
"Boycott" mean that we will not play NSL anymore. Because if we will it would mean we completely agree with EvilBot's guilt. But I do not really like to play with a sneaky cheater in one team even if he was my friend. If I will make sure EvilBot is cheater, he will leave PowerUP!
"Boycott" mean that we will not play NSL anymore. Because if we will it would mean we completely agree with EvilBot's guilt. But I do not really like to play with a sneaky cheater in one team even if he was my friend. If I will make sure EvilBot is cheater, he will leave PowerUP!
Battle.net: CRaZyCAT #222106
22 October 2014 - 00:27 CEST
I don't really care because I think pascow's screaming in ts is funny.
But: What reasons does evilbot have to tell any of you the truth? Think about it..
- If he admitts that he is cheating he will be banned and kicked from the team. He will lose his face, people will not trust his word. That's a lot to lose.
- What if he keeps denying? He is banned already, he cannot play with PU! but his friends still trust his word. People will see his martyrdom and nothing in his personal space will change. He will be the guy who was banned unjustified. People will start wearing #FreeEvilBot tags in their names.
We will still pcw you guys with evilbot btw. Teaches us a lot about calling engagements and shit :) Just recently we did the most successful shotgun rush in NS2 history. Not to mention the lerk rush before that.
But: What reasons does evilbot have to tell any of you the truth? Think about it..
- If he admitts that he is cheating he will be banned and kicked from the team. He will lose his face, people will not trust his word. That's a lot to lose.
- What if he keeps denying? He is banned already, he cannot play with PU! but his friends still trust his word. People will see his martyrdom and nothing in his personal space will change. He will be the guy who was banned unjustified. People will start wearing #FreeEvilBot tags in their names.
We will still pcw you guys with evilbot btw. Teaches us a lot about calling engagements and shit :) Just recently we did the most successful shotgun rush in NS2 history. Not to mention the lerk rush before that.
CRaZyCAT
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22 October 2014 - 00:30 CEST
And let's be honest EvilBot aim is too outstanding to able him to perform such aim skill and such twitching aim style without cheats if he was really cheating
Battle.net: CRaZyCAT #222106
Cr4zy
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22 October 2014 - 01:50 CEST
I read that really fast and really slow and I still went "what?!"
22 October 2014 - 05:42 CEST
true dat !
Turket slap bicthes :)
22 October 2014 - 08:26 CEST
Evilbot lost his "magic moments" in the PCW against us.
We played very bad the first 2 rounds, horrible engagements, etc. (I didnt play PCWs a while).
But there was a noticable difference how evilbot perform compared to other games we play against you.
Multiple people (Refs, prem div players) watched the unreleased Videos and come to the conclusion that he use an toggable aimbot.
One day after this become public evilbot lost his "magic aim".
I think we need no more proof.
This isnt a conspiracy from the evil NSL-Admins against powerup. They handled this well and diplomatic.
Maybe someone should release the 1st person Videos, so everyone can see what the season ban is based on.
We played very bad the first 2 rounds, horrible engagements, etc. (I didnt play PCWs a while).
But there was a noticable difference how evilbot perform compared to other games we play against you.
Multiple people (Refs, prem div players) watched the unreleased Videos and come to the conclusion that he use an toggable aimbot.
One day after this become public evilbot lost his "magic aim".
I think we need no more proof.
This isnt a conspiracy from the evil NSL-Admins against powerup. They handled this well and diplomatic.
Maybe someone should release the 1st person Videos, so everyone can see what the season ban is based on.