@wob "The game balance changes throughout the season anyway so the consistency goes out the window there but that's not ENSL's fault and you don't cry about that."

Wob who mentioned anything about the game ballance? who said game ballance was ENSL's fault?
You really are a retard mate you should just keep your mouth shut you have no idea what you are talking about.
I'm not even going to comment on the rest of the crap you said cos you just talk a load of irrelivant noncence.

You wanna see retard just check out the current shoutbox on the front page. Sums this entire website up.

@SUPER_SARS 150 ppl running ENSL? pffff, take out the 1 and the 0 and your might be close mate.

"All the above rules may change during the season at Season Admin's discretion" - Does that mean its a good idea to do it, come on mate you can come up with something better than that. Oh wait maybe you cant, your already scraping the bottom of the barrel with your responses.

joev

[quote=SUPER_SARS]"You guys are crazy, you don't have a competitive competition and then 8 weeks in (with only 3 weeks remaining) change the whole format. Who cares if the admin changed half way through the season. You just don't

This is supposed to be a community ran game and website. Seems to me one guy is waking up each morning wondering what he feels like changing today."

Firstly, do you think there's like 150 people running the ENSL? Secondly, the season admin can change the rules whenever he/she feels like it, its in the rules. "All the above rules may change during the season at Season Admin's discretion" There right there at the bottom of the season rules written in red in-case you missed it among the rest of the bland lettering.

So many of the bad "Gamer" behaviours exhibited in this thread. *Sigh* I thought NS was a bit more grown up than this.

Kilo raises a perfectly legitimate point and instead of discussing it, you have the usual jumping down the throat of the messenger or rushing to defend based on the spurious logic of "I'm ok with it therefore it must be OK"

Any competitive sport must have rules. That's a given. I also disagree that the rules are subject to the admin's whim. For every decision they make they should and must be answerable to the sport (you), not above them.

Stop defending Zefram and call him to task. He represents this sport and you as it's competitive players. He can't make a unilateral decision like this without consulting anyone and call it legitimate.

Kilo is 100% correct and you should be supporting his position. You cannot have a cogent eSport where the rules, nay, but not just the rules, the whole format of it's only real competition get changed overnight (seemingly) at the admin's whim.

I've started watching NS (ENSL matches) for the first time in 10 years (since I was a dev on NS1) and it's been a brilliant season but as a viewer and supporter I've no interest in continuing to support a corrupt sport where I can't trust that the admins are acting in the interest of the sport.

Come on people: Can you imagine any other sports competition where it would be accepted by the community that the format is going to be changed 2 weeks before the end of the season?

Imagine if the (Soccer) World Cup, the World Series, the NFL, the NHL or whatever equivalent league you (may) follow in the real world did things like this? You'd be up in arms.

I'm astonished and very disappointed and most certainly won't be supporting any more of the ENSL this season (or possibly ever).

No wonder the damned thing keeps dying if this is the behaviour of the people responsible for its survival and the apathy of the community to such behaviour. [/quote]


He can bring up any point he wants, just don't bring "I'm going to be a dick to everyone" attitude when bringing up your point.

SUPER_SARS

He can bring up any point he wants, just don't bring "I'm going to be a dick to everyone" attitude when bringing up your point.

Failing to see how his post(s) had that attitude. (He was and is pissed off clearly but that's understandable). Seems to me that other people brought the penis to this discussion.

Now, can we talk about the actual problem?

joev

joev

It's a cultural thing here in the UK now that the smallest of issues must be blown up to the greatest of severities. It's a very common problem in the media of today and it looks like it has extended itself to the common population.

Kilo doesn't raise a legitimate point. The rules say that the admin can change the rules at any point. These teams have signed up to this tournament and those rules.

Kilo's point is that the "ENSL rules are pointless" with regards to the playoffs allowing more than 4 teams when the rules initially stated that there'd only be 4. This has changed now (according to the rules) and now there are more than 4 so kilo's complaint is invalid.

What Kilo has done here isn't a private message asking the admins for an explanation, or making a thread to discuss the change, but rather to flame the organisation and then people who disagree with him which exhibits "bad 'Gamer' behaviours".

There's no need to defend Zefram when the rules state he has acted within his rights and especially when this is a tiny change in the long scheme of things. It's not as if he's added a clause saying "Teams with the letter 'I' in automatically start the game 1-0 up" which obviously is problematic. It's a reasonable change which doesn't require the amount of effort gone into this thread nor the amount of abuse being hurled like a bunch of football hooligans.

The whole format hasn't changed. That's over hyped bullshit that it seems you've been suckered for. One extra round has been added to the knock out stage. It's still a knock out stage. Stop being so dramatic.

"Corrupt sport"... drama pls stop.

Yeah you're right, that no other sport would change something in the very season they're playing in, but seriously it's not that big a deal. The positives outweigh the negatives.

Your support probably won't be missed (1 post, and while that doesn't measure someone's support wholly, it can give a good idea).

The game is not dying because a very small minority get offended by such small issues.

There are many rules in the NSL that need refinement and clarification (which I am drafting and plan to refine during the off season). Some of the historically egregious ones are that of forfeits, rescheduling, and what to do when one team does not communicate or intend to play matches. There are no clear rules for many of these gray areas. And when there are more defined rules, there's been a lack of enforcement, leaving us with a league where teams are able to game the system and sometimes conduct themselves with poor sportsmanship even when it falls within the prescribed rules.

Ever since I started volunteering my time to this league, my goal at its core has been: To bring people together and play games. It's very much like the intent of UWE's mantra of bringing people together through play. Every decision I've made or will be making is aimed towards that.

The addition of the quarterfinals was to mitigate some possibly unfair decisions that I would have had to make under the rules of rescheduling and forfeits that I do not agree with. There were several matches where one team would not communicate or intend to play and as a direct result would have left another team out of the playoffs. I did not think it would be fair for me to just decide one way or another. My decision was to bring more teams in a quarterfinal as a better solution.

The only part of Kilo's argument that I agree with is that there does need to be some sort of stability in the rules (again, rules that need a lot of reworking). Although admins do have the ability to change and apply rules at their discretion, there shouldn't be major changes during a season. I do think, I should have announced that there would be an additional round added to the Division 2 and 3 playoffs though. Even my solution for the situation only presented itself a few days before the announcement. If it affected teams playing some of their matches because they felt like they had nothing to play for, I'd like to remind people that sportsmanship would urge you to ALWAYS play fair and at your best level out of respect for yourself, your team, and your opponent.

The addition of a quarterfinal is a minor change and isn't as hyperbolically ridiculous as Kilo or some others may claim. It is one more match. Let me repeat that, one more match in the season and very likely against a "weaker" team. In the scope of things, it's making mountains out of molehills.

I'll always be open to having discussions about decisions I've made, but I won't tolerate people who are rude and troll members of the community, even when you disagree. Please keep on topic and stay civil. Good luck to the teams that have made it to the playoffs and let's have some great matches in the weeks to come.

Kilo

@wob "The game balance changes throughout the season anyway so the consistency goes out the window there but that's not ENSL's fault and you don't cry about that."

Wob who mentioned anything about the game ballance? who said game ballance was ENSL's fault?
You really are a retard mate you should just keep your mouth shut you have no idea what you are talking about.
I'm not even going to comment on the rest of the crap you said cos you just talk a load of irrelivant noncence.

You wanna see retard just check out the current shoutbox on the front page. Sums this entire website up.

Because you have an issue with consistency. You're complaining about the consistency of the "format" of the league. What's the difference between that consistency and the consistency of balance.

You shouldn't complain about logical things if you can't comprehend the logic. It just makes you look foolish along side your petty insults and poor spelling. I'll give you the courtesy of allowing you to pass off your ignorance of my comments because of my "irrelivant noncence" as a sign that you're going to stop making these arguments without logical premises.

Wob

"Corrupt sport"... drama pls stop.

Yeah you're right, that no other sport would change something in the very season they're playing in, but seriously it's not that big a deal. The positives outweigh the negatives.

Your support probably won't be missed (1 post, and while that doesn't measure someone's support wholly, it can give a good idea).

The game is not dying because a very small minority get offended by such small issues.



[/quote]


Joes support means a lot more to NS2 than 99.9% of anyone from the ENSL. I.E. being the development director of NS1!

Wob

Your support probably won't be missed (1 post, and while that doesn't measure someone's support wholly, it can give a good idea).

Clearly you have no idea about what I've done to support NS over the years. I'm pretty certain it's several orders of magnitude more than you or many of the other commenting on this thread.

Hint: You might like to look here: http://forums.unknownworlds.com/profile/977/joev

And even if that carries no weight with you, you might consider that I'm but one of many people who quietly follow the league and rarely speak up (but this has gotten to me enough to do so now)

Wob

The game is not dying because a very small minority get offended by such small issues.

No, it's dying because the large majority allow injustices such as this to flourish either out of apathy or worse, with support.

Let me ask you this question. Who asked for this change? No posts on the forums asking for an extra week of games, noone complaining as of yesterday that the previous format disadvantaged anyone. In fact no mention about any issues with the format of the league anywhere...

I've read Zefram's response and the most important paragraph is the third:

Zefram

The addition of the quarterfinals was to mitigate some possibly unfair decisions that I would have had to make under the rules of rescheduling and forfeits that I do not agree with. There were several matches where one team would not communicate or intend to play and as a direct result would have left another team out of the playoffs. I did not think it would be fair for me to just decide one way or another. My decision was to bring more teams in a quarterfinal as a better solution.

Now again, I have to ask. If people were being disadvantaged why hasn't there been a single post here complaining?

In fact the only complaint I've seen is here: http://www.ensl.org/matches/5347 in the comments from Tinki of Renegade over a forfeit decision in favour Silvermoon. Renegade, as it happens do not get a playoff place as a consequence of this change.

I really don't see why this needed to happen and I question why it had to happen in the way it has.

Wob you stick your head in on topics that dont concern you and start argueing with everyone on them, haha how can you say anything about me and my attitude, your a joke mate

And you want to speak about bad grammar? This is the internet mate I'm not handing in my english exam essay, like I said, really scraping the bottom of the response barrel

joev

In fact the only complaint I've seen is here: http://www.ensl.org/matches/5347 in the comments from Tinki of Renegade over a forfeit decision in favour Silvermoon. Renegade, as it happens do not get a playoff place as a consequence of this change.

I don't actually see how Renegade would have made it to the playoffs even if that match were a 4-0 in their favour. They would have tied with the fourth place team in points and had already lost the head to head match up that decided whether a tiebreaker would have been needed. They had NO chance to advance to a playoff regardless of a format change or not.

And I'm rather offended that Tinki or anyone would insinuate that I have made unfair decisions based on favoritism. I've had a history of making decisions against teams that I love and even my own team and making rulings for teams and players that I may not have always agreed with. I've done my best to be fair and my record proves it.

Zefram

I don't actually see how Renegade would have made it to the playoffs even if that match were a 4-0 in their favour. They would have tied with the fourth place team in points and had already lost the head to head match up that decided whether a tiebreaker would have been needed. They had NO chance to advance to a playoff regardless of a format change or not.

You misunderstood my point. My point wasn't that Renegade stood to gain from this but the opposite.

The only people to complain about any of your decisions is the one team who stood not to gain at all from the change.

Why did you make this change when no-one complained? I'd like to see the chain of logic that led to it. I think that sort of transparency will go a long way towards taming this particular storm in a teacup.

As for your refereeing decisions themselves, I know nothing of your character and would never insinuate that you were anything but fair.

But it is self-evident to me that the admin of a league such as this, the person who runs it and represents it in the public's mind, must be completely impartial and therefore cannot be in one of the competitive teams... but that conflict of interest is a different debate to be had at a different time.

joev

joev

Why did you make this change when no-one complained? I'd like to see the chain of logic that led to it. I think that sort of transparency will go a long way towards taming this particular storm in a teacup.

But it is self-evident to me that the admin of a league such as this, the person who runs it and represents it in the public's mind, must be completely impartial and therefore cannot be in one of the competitive teams... but that conflict of interest is a different debate to be had at a different time.

joev

I'm not sure what else there is to explain. I've been rather clear in previous posts. There were situations in both Division 2 and 3 that never occurred because of the results of matches. My change was to take care of teams who may have been penalized because of other teams who lacked the ability to schedule matches in a timely manner (something that will certainly be addressed in new rules). Whether teams brought it up or not, it was already something I had been contemplating. It's a stop gap solution to really poor scheduling rules. Is it really offensive to people that there are more teams in the playoffs or that a few teams have to play ONE more match in the season?

Take a step back Kilo and joev, think about what you guys are complaining about or bringing to the forefront here. You're seeing something very minor, a stop gap solution to deal with poor rules and calling it something overwhelmingly negative, nefarious, and gross misconduct. It's such gross misconduct, in fact, that a team that has to play ONE more match starts a complaint thread AND an NS1 developer who has never posted on this forum before, even during the NS1 era, actually takes the time to post. No one else sees how ridiculous this is?

As for being a member of a team as an admin... As far as I'm aware, there has never been a time in NS2 league history where a head or league admin (most other admins are on teams too) wasn't part of his own team. It's never been a problem. Also, I've even brought this very concern of conflict of interests to blind, the head admin, and have even offered to defer problems in the premier division to him. It's simply not an issue.

joev

Why did you make this change when no-one complained? I'd like to see the chain of logic that led to it. I think that sort of transparency will go a long way towards taming this particular storm in a teacup.
joev

Just because there was not a forum post does not mean that this was not discussed. Stop assuming that.

joev

The only people to complain about any of your decisions is the one team who stood not to gain at all from the change.

I assume by "gain" you mean that Vexta would have gone on to finals without this change. I'm in Div 2, Ascension and I were both going on regardless of this change. I guess we've just chosen not to be little girls about it and enjoy the fact that we get to play another match with our team.

So you're right, they're the only ones complaining, but they are NOT the only team who stood "not to gain".

joev

But it is self-evident to me that the admin of a league such as this, the person who runs it and represents it in the public's mind, must be completely impartial and therefore cannot be in one of the competitive teams... but that conflict of interest is a different debate to be had at a different time.

If you think you can get someone to run this league who is competent, not on any team AND is willing to do it, you obviously don't know this community that well... The amount of time you have to sink in to make this run smoothly is more than most people would be willing to spend. We are extremely fortunate to have Zefram in charge. I've known him for a long time now and I know that he would not make any changes to particularly favor one team or another. He's fair to the point that it's irritating sometimes.


I still don't understand why you guys are crying so much about having to play one more match. If you really can't handle playing ONE MORE MATCH, then forfeit.

Finally we have some life in the ENSL Forums again --> VERY LOVELY !

I ll be picking and choosing cause there is a bit much and i dont want this to become to long 8) !

First off Joev:

Being on a team is not a problem as long as you are a strong character.
ENSL was lead by Jiriki for many years and he played in DIV1 at all times. Not once did that cause a problem!
A strong personality will put integrity first ... i am not saying you are not but the fact that this needs explaining .. well :) !

Second Kilo:

The way you react to other ppl is why no one will actually take you serious around here ... a smart person will disregard the trolling and focus on his goal .. but maybe your goal is the drama after all .. in that case you might still be smart .. but i doubt it.
Oh and the shoutbox is meant to be silly .. if you are not capable of having fun in your free time playing a game you like then ... well i am so very sorry for you XD !

Third Zefram:

He is my special friend. I have made clear that i disagree with him and his buddies more than once.
And even though he is right that the actual impact of the decision is laughable, it is still fact that decision used to be talked over in the admin forums(at least in my days).
And Rule changes during a season should only be made if demanded and absolutely necessary to get rid of a fundamental issue.

But then again if he knew what he was doing this:
EisTeeAT NS Servers 01/Aug/13 07:00 General trolling and disrespec...
EisTeeAT Gather 01/Aug/13 07:00 General trolling and disrespec...
EisTeeAT Commenting 01/Aug/13 07:00 General trolling and disrespec...
EisTeeAT Website Logon 01/Aug/13 07:00 General trolling and disrespec...
would not happen.

If you ban someone from Website logon all the other bans are redundant. GJ there btw. XD !
And yes i choose my own bans so i am not dragging someone else into this :) !

Fourth Ryssk:

Lovely pictures very entertaining XD !

In conclusion:
Zefram made a mistake .. it is undeniable .. and if he is a man he owns up to it.
But further, this mistake has such a little impact that it is just ridiculous to complain about it ... hence my Mimimi post earlier.

Oh and also:
Whoever brought up the comparison to real sports ... you should first think then talk.

Young games evolve, rules change ALOT. the only reason that they do not anymore is because they are around for such a long time. SO rules have been refined enough.

But if you follow the NFL they change rules every season!
Yeah they do not do it midseason and i already said .. bad move by zefram but changing rules is necessary to actually <b>ENSURE THE GAMES SURVIVAL !</b>

So basically:
If you never ran THIS COMMUNITY just be nice and humble with your suggestions and stop getting sidetracked by trolls.

Much Love EisTee

P.S. i guess it did become really long after all XD !

I didn't believe I could have ever agreed with EisTee. I guess there is first for everything.

THank you .. i guess? XD !

@Blueeyed

K cool. Contribution to NS1 development does not attribute directly to ENSL NS2 support.

@Joev

TY for anything you brought to NS1 that was successfully brought to NS2 for the good of the game, but I doubt retracting any further support of yours for ENSL will be missed.

@Kilo

I don't think you understand how forum topics work. They are primarily for discussion. The fact of the matter is that you've blown up about something so incidental; and not for the first time. We're discussing this but you take it to such a personal level like the "typical gamer behaviour" rather than actually sitting down and treating opposing responses as progression rather than aggression.

And I'm not going "HAHA YOU CAN'T SPELL LOLZ". I'm saying that you clearly aren't intelligent enough to be able to argue effectively with this community. Your spelling and logical bases just showcase how poorly you understand how things work. You're petty, dramatic, and embarrassing, and I just whole heartedly pity you. I sincerely feel sorry for you right now. (Although at the same time I can't help but laugh my ass off imagining your reaction if you could understand half of what I say.)

Wob PLZ.

@EisTeeAT
I can't take your post seriously.
You insult kilo about responding to the troll which in any decent forum room the troll's comments would be removed or he would be banned for a period, maybe indefinetly. Then you compliment the troll for a good job! Kilo was not at fault for asking for a more serious response to his question people like you are, who reward and agree with trolls like this. I think you will find it is you who is of lesser intellect.

@Wob
It's clear getting one up in the forums means alot to you in a desperate attempt to feel superior to others. Your writing only consists of all style no substance its clear you lack the cognitive ability to understand simple arguments,refer to your first post filled with none relevant gibberish.

@Zefram
There are multiple problems with this change

SEEDING:
This change makes seeding above 4th kinda pointless since you can't judge skill between the groups. In the old format group A 1st would go against group B 2nd as reward for getting 1st, therefore making it more likely they will get into the finals since group b 2nd should be of lesser skill than group b 1st. But since you can't tell if group A 4th is better than group b 4th you can only judge the skill of them in comparison to their score for the group vs the others in the group which only works in the old format. So you very likely end up in a situation where seeding 1 ends up playing more stronger teams than seeding two just making it pointless. True this isn't too much of an issue, but it's problematic when facing more stronger teams over time, you are more likely to buckle and make a mistakes hence the reason that seeding exists to help with this issue as reward for playing well through the season.

Numbers:
Why would i want to play when over half the division makes it into the quaterfinals again makes the rest of the matches feel more pointless.

Wrong solution to a different problem:
The problem with people being unable to complete the matches can be delt with changes to the rules relating to forefits maybe instead of 4-0 to one team, give 2-2 this way neither team gains an advantage. More attentive admins can deal with the abuse that might come of this new rule however this would be fairer if no conculsion can be made. The solution is not that more need to be added to the knockout rounds.

Timing and dealing with the community:
This just came out of the blue which will cause inconviences for people due to timings people making plans due to fact they think they aren't making the play off's etc. The main problem is the lack of communication with the community you have the ability to poll and create threads where people can post suggestions. If all you expect of your community is that everytime someone posts a question thread such as this, is troll posts, memes and all that crap thats all it will remain as. Just changing things leads to complacency people don't question things because it's has been changed, however if you asked before it was changed we would get more interesting repsonses with suggestions including ways this could be improved.

I have no problem with having more matches but it's the implementation of this that is the issue.

tyrer1246

@Wob
It's clear getting one up in the forums means alot to you in a desperate attempt to feel superior to others. Your writing only consists of all style no substance its clear you lack the cognitive ability to understand simple arguments,refer to your first post filled with none relevant gibberish.

It doesn't mean a lot to me, but it is a source of entertainment for me. Some one comes in here spouting elitist bullshit ("There are 2 teams that haven't earned it" paraphrased) and gets so upset so easily when so many other people, not just myself, don't see it as a large issue at all and reason with you.

Wob

The game balance changes throughout the season anyway so the consistency goes out the window there but that's not ENSL's fault and you don't cry about that.

Here is the "non relevant gibberish" of my first post. I'll explain a little more.
Kilo complains of inconsistency with league due to rules.
Kilo doesn't complain of inconsistency with league due to balance.
Why is there no thread asking to play only 1 build throughout the season?
UNLESS of course one inconveniences him more than the other.
You can't have your cake and eat it.
If these inconsistencies bother him, then logically, he has a problem with the builds of the game changing throughout the league's course; or is that just a bit too ridiculous? (Like being outraged that a couple of teams are being added to a quarter final?)

Wob

The format of the competition hasn't "completely changed" either. They just simply expanded the range of teams who can play in the knockout stage. That shouldn't be a big problem for anyone really because you're all seeded based on the league you've played over the last X amount of weeks.

Some more "non relevant gibberish" where it is explained (like others before tried) that the competition hasn't completely changed and that you're making mountains out of mole hills.

Wob

I think everyone finds it a joke at how petty little things get you so worked up that you feel the need to call out on "bullshit". This is why people call you a troll, post .gifs, and do one lined comments; because either you're really a troll, or you react hilariously to the most mundane of things.

This part of my first comment serves to explain why you receive the types of comments you do in your forum threads.
You make a thread about a ridiculous topic with a ridiculous amount of attitude and are appalled by the responses you get which treat you like a little kid. And apparently also appalled to my responses which at least treats you like an adult. Of course, if my writing is all style and no substance I can start writing as if I'm talking to a 5 year old. That might help you guys, right?

tyrer1246

Numbers:
Why would i want to play when over half the division makes it into the quaterfinals again makes the rest of the matches feel more pointless.

Oh, you mean just like how Premiere & Div 1 & Div 4 all have over half going to finals? And how in Premiere there's only two teams NOT going on? Yeah. Don't complain.

tyrer1246

Wrong solution to a different problem:
The problem with people being unable to complete the matches can be delt with changes to the rules relating to forefits maybe instead of 4-0 to one team, give 2-2 this way neither team gains an advantage. More attentive admins can deal with the abuse that might come of this new rule however this would be fairer if no conculsion can be made. The solution is not that more need to be added to the knockout rounds.

You realize this means a team could forfeit every single match and potentially earn more points than playing them? There are some teams that had under 12 points this season, if they had just forfeited every match they'd have a higher score. That is straight up silly. If a team doesn't schedule their matches in a timely manner // refuses to communicate they should not be awarded ANY points, end of story. While neither team gains an advantage OVER EACH OTHER, they gain an advantage over the other teams. Completely disagree with you here.

After 2 pages of reading I still don't see the point behind this.

going back to the topic...
well i can see why you dont like the changes for div3 since u had it all played out and such.
but its a good change for div 2 since we had 2 disbands in our group another disband in the other group and teams not playing at all because they couldnt or didnt want to set up matches that had to be scheduled at ridicoulus times.

In the end this just made Div 2 Group A and B into a new season with the teams that actually wanted to play and scheduled their games and we now have a chance to play it with teams that actually want to win the season instead of having to schedule crazy timed matches and having the other team disband rendering all the matches and scores uselss...

also if u just ignore half the people u wont have to rage at comments... ryssk is trolling around im surprised he didnt get banned yet... wob doesnt even really play the game anymore and while what he says might make sense and has a true point in the end its just to troll you... this is actually the first useful post i see from eistee and the rest are just oneliners that should just be deleted (not eistees oneliners but from several other guys)

anyway as long as theres no one around keeping the forum clean dont even try to get a serious discussion in here...
also if theres no one to keep it clean gimme the rights i´ll delete half the forum :P

Im out of popcorn, does anybody have some leftovers? Im so far up in somebodys ass atm as Kilo stated before at page 1 so i "cba" to buy some more! xD So warm and cozy in here!

I mean... this topic is just... worthless? 1 guy together with his teammates starts to complain instead of sending a PM to the admin and asking about the adjustments, or rather maybe told his suggestions in Feedback instead of General.

And IMHO is just good that more games are played atm, with so many teams folded in different divisions.

This is for you EisTaat xD:

@Wob You assume my first post is spontaneous and right off the bat. If you had actually comprehended what I'd written, you would see that there have clearly been several issues beforehand which lead to the way I refer to the ENSL and part of It's administration. Surprisingly even with your superiority over all other human beings due to your unparalleled intelligence, you seem to have missed this and assume I speak in this manner to all people all the time, that my friend would be incorrect. What is clear is that It's no secret I don't like you and will continue to speak to you with little respect every time I have the misfortune of having to do so.

If we look at the facts regarding you however we can see that you quite often post on topics that don't concern you and start arguing with half of the people on them. You have no intention of highlighting the problems or suggesting any constructive solutions with your posts and literally just come on the forum to see what statements from other people you can pick at, re-word, turn around and generally disagree with. I personally conclude this to be the reason you cant seem to hold a clan together for more than three days and when joining another clan, last no more than a week.

Therefore you can save your pity for yourself. I know I'm no angel, but your just delusional mate with who you seem to think you are.

@Ryssk Why would I PM the admin? This issue affects majority of clans in the league. Posting on the forum gives people the opportunity to voice there opinions on matters that concern them, which this does. Problem is they wont do that they will just quit the league and the game, know why? Read half of the bullshit reply's above, that will start you on the right track. You think your all trolling me? Your trolling yourself, the website and the game and your too stupid to realise it.

@Smaragor Possibly the most valuable post on the threat, good question you raise... Why aren't you an ENSL admin? Instead we get tards like the EisTeeAT fellow (who to be fair did eventually find someone to write something constructive for him, regards to who ever did that).

@DJLAMBO You are literally a refined Icelandic version of w0b

@Decoy From what I understand it was BOTH teams who could not agree on a scheduel, not just one, which is why it has been suggested it was unfair the points were not split.

Cant remember who brought up the point that the change is a good idea due to teams disbanding and dropping from the league. If anything I would argue the complete opposite. We started with 6 teams, if one disbanded, that means 4 out of the 5 remaining are getting through to play playoffs? That's waaay too many and only serves to emphasis why such a huge change to the format so far into the league was completely illogical and unnecessary.

Finally http://www.ensl.org/matches/5385 - check out w0ks first post. Even the team that thought they were out and have been given a extra life due to the change don't want to play, says it all really...

Who are You?

The real issue here is not what the new rules are, but rather how they have been changed. While there may have been discussions between the admins about this, it would have been nice for somebody to start a thread to ask what the community's opinion on it was.

I just think any changes to the rules which happen during the season should have some form of discussion about them, or at the very least some notice beforehand that this is going to change.

so if it happens that the 2 teams that disband were thought of as the best 2 teams and the new best 2 teams in the group are way worse then the other groups best 2 and actually worse then the 3. and 4. then that 3 and 4 place dont get a chance to advance but worse teams get to be 3 and 4th place in the end just because there was no way to compare teams between groups? then u would have with the forfeit in higher Div that maybe that 3 and 4 place get higher div and get stomped in there while those 2 teams that didnt have a chance to play again are stomping the lower division

and the point about groups was that we had a lot of teams but the disbanding makes it pointless in the first place so it was either let more teams play again or start the whole season over for div 2

well but this is all div 2 im just saying he got a point doing that in div2 and seeing that div3 might have the same problems i´d say it isnt all crap

<edit>

I removed my original post immediately after posting as I realised it really wasn't worth the hassle. As that obviously went out to people in this thread anyway, here's the gist of what I wrote, which I stand by:

Vexta are good guys, nice fellas, and they have worked very hard as a team to get where they now are: I absolutely respect that. All of the individuals I've had contact with outside of the usual pub game chatter have been really nice guys and I genuinely like them. My problem with kilo stems from his attitude both on these forums and in the servers towards other people. My personal opinion, which I have stated to one vexta member before this thread even existed, is that Vexta as a clan should get rid of Kilo (or at least work with him to resolve his attitude problems): it's not worth for the rest of you guys to be brought down by one bad egg.

haha Roobubba stop editing

i hear everything
i see everything
i read everything :P